In the living room, after a lunch that Carole prepared, Tiffany suggests that she, her father, and her brother all share a personality trait that made Sebastian unlikable to the jury. Mr. Ponytail stole a car, then Mr. Big, an apparently senior gangster, pressured Burns into driving it back to Vancouver. When the two boys returned to the Rafay home around 2AM on July 13, they found Rafay's mother and father had been bludgeoned to death. They were highly coercive and I dont think it should be have been allowed in a U.S. court, and I think it should also be taken into account their age, Loudenberg said of the then-19 year olds. Press J to jump to the feed. It didnt belong to Sebastian, ergo it was irrelevant.. The episodes introduce viewers to the Mr. Atif Rafay, a target of the controversial Mr.Big technique and one of Canadas most famous convicted killers, has said that he felt extremely threatened during the undercover operation meant to extract a confession of murder. Creating an atmosphere that says crime is OK, flashing around guns and wads of cash, the undercover Mounties attempt to get their targets to talk about past misdeeds. The Rafay family had recently moved to Bellevue from Vancouver, B.C. His behaviour to fit in with the criminals so he could be helped by them is exactly why this tactic is not accepted in other countries. Sebastian Burns And Atif Rafay - Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay were convicted in a triple murder Josiah Bush (16) - Josiah Bush would murder two people Timothy Buss (12) - Timothy Buss would first murder at 12 and then would kill again at 27 Alyssa Bustamante (15) - Alyssa Bustamante was fifteen when she murdered a nine year old girl Eventually the talk turned to murder. It wasnt even just that informant - other police stations had put forward others who had also said it was an someone in the muslin community who had ordered the attacks. I have personally done it during a movie there once when I had to leave during a movie. They see a lot of money at the end of the rainbow. With the two in Canada, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, also called the RCMP, began an investigation. https://www.reddit.com/r/netflix/comments/6zghqr/the_confession_tapes_atif_and_sebastian/, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v_Burns. 65 follows Adam Driver as his spaceship is hit by an undocumented asteroid and comes crashing down on an "uncharted celestial body.". According to court documents Atif Rafay and Sebastian Burns has been friends for years before the murders occurred. Atif's father . Its not accepted anywhere else in the world because you not obtaining a true confession. Loudenberg said she doesnt know what theyre talking about, because there is no forensic evidence against them., To the contrary, there was a pubic hair found in Mr. Rafays bed, in Tariq Rafays bed, and at first they initially asserted the public hair found in Mr. Rafays bed was certainly left there by the killer and, after it was found not to match any of the Rafays, nor Sebastian Burns, they dismissed it as a stray, she said. For anyone that is not familiar with this case, I've left a link to the case at the bottom of the description about the case. Hence, he was not an academic star like his friend Rafay, who got a scholarship to Cornell. Loudenberg began researching cases for The Confession Tapes a year before she brought it to Netflix, but she didnt find this case until the end of that year. The CBS program 48 Hours did a special, which also spawned a book, Perfectly Executed. On July 12 1994 the two teenagers headed to the Rafay home and Sebastien Burns would murder the entire family with a baseball bat including Rafay father, mother and twenty year old autistic sister. Now 32, he has rejected his lawyer and is petitioning the state Supreme Court to allow him to represent himself. Included in their scheme was a fake memo from Bellevue police claiming they had forensic evidence that implicated the suspects. The jury at the mens six-month trial was told Rafay was motivated by money and planned the killings while Burns carried them out. This is the most quoted piece of evidence. He was very smart/clever with a fatal flaw: other people weren't quite as dumb as he assumed. I did that and then, at the end of the day, I came to my own conclusions about that and their innocence.. Of Burns, Haslett says, I would never have said Im ever going to do him any physical harm. I believe theyre innocent because this was a false confession and theres no forensic evidence pointing to the fact that they did it, not to mention they had an alibi and there were so many reasons why theyre innocent.. The creators disagree. Recently retired from the RCMP, he can now talk about his many cases as Mr. Big, coaxing confessions from murder suspects such asRafay and Burns. And it is hard for me to envision ever now being anything other than profoundly unhappy.. While the Bellevue police department was keeping tabs on the boys, the RCMP had launched its own investigation using a trademark technique dubbed by the Canadian press as a Mr. when the brutal murders occurred. Burns has exhausted all of his appeals and Atif Rafay is on his last one. On the night of the murders, the two young men claim they ate dinner at The Keg before watching the Lion King at the old Factoria Cinemas. Loudenberg said she has the entire interrogation of Miyoshi and said what was left out of the prosecutors offices statement was the RCMPs threat against Myoshi with 99 years in prison and even a suggestion of the death penalty if he didnt give evidence against his friends. "I just felt like what happened to them was so devastating - like their lives had been stolen," she says in the video above. Atif was suppose to participate in the murders but lost his nerve once they entered the home, According to prosecutors the goal of the triple murders were the half a million insurance policy and the money that would come from selling the family home, Atif Rafay and Sebastian Burns were taken into custody and interrogated for three days before they were released. Ominis twists to face you fully, and grabs the hand lingering between you two for a tender kiss on your knuckles. Down to Blockbuster, where Thompson says they rented a Bruce Lee martial-arts flick called Enter the Dragon and a Chevy Chase comedy. I was confused, it seemed like almost nothing new has come up other than news articles talking about the case posted back when the show first aired. Good grief - you have all this noise about it being that kind of attack, then you get full detailed information about specifically who it was. The documentary-style, multi-episode, true crime series begins with two episodes titled True East, and are dedicated to the Rafay murders. This was 97-98, North Van had a gang problem. No way. According to the guards' statements, they believed that the lawyer had been having sex with her tall, 26-year-old client for at least three or . . Another defense consultant barred from testifying at the trial was a former Drug Enforcement Administration undercover cop named Michael Levine. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Burns and Rafay, both Canadian citizens, had been staying at the home since July 7. Its been more well-documented in the age of DNA, he says. I feel I have been and continue to be damaged in irrevocable ways. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. In 2014, the Supreme Court ruling called into question the reliability of confessions obtained during such a sting, and legal experts say dozens of cases of convictions could come under review. [2] After returning to Canada, Burns and Rafay confessed to undercover Royal Canadian Mounted Police. The press frenzy continued, on and off, for 10 years, as the case dragged on with a soap operalike trajectory. Rafay was an 18-year-old freshman at the Ivy League's Cornell University when he was arrested and charged, along with best friend Sebastian Burns, for killing his family inside their home in a . The state bar claims. Sony Pictures Entertainment. Big technique used by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Canadian-equivalent to the FBI and brings in a Mr. Big expert to analyze what led to the incarceration of Atif Rafay and Sebastian Burns, who were teenagers at the time of the murders. Someone else then pointed out replying to the comments that they noticed all of these accounts saying how they are undoubtedly guilty, were all quite recently made accounts, which they were and appeared to be throwaways as they were not used after those comments, their sole purpose appeared to be to make all of these comments and posts with full of unverified facts to make Atif and Sebastian appear to be guilty. The prosecutors office said The Confession Tapes left some out. Watching the first episode again was equally as sad as the first. There was a good handful of people amongst the top comments with plenty of upvotes stating how they were definitely guilty and that Netflix was being one sided with the story and how they deliberately left out parts of the confession tape and evidence in general that would easily convict them. I work in Psychology, and this is in part gaslighting-something you see in domestic violence, and something you see from people with certain Personality Disorders. In May of 2004, Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay were convicted of the July 1994 murder of Rafay's parents, Tariq and Sultana, and his sister, Basma. But he doesnt think Burns and Rafay were frightened into confessing. Theyre guilty. He described it, they found his hair and the dads blood in the shower and he said it was because he did it naked. Referring to Mr. Big, he said: You know how fuckin solid [he] is?When it came time for fuckin court, the person that could finger me, theyre not around anymore, so I know that business gets taken care of. Another day, the man got Burns to stand guard while he beat the crap out of somebody. These criminals then befriended the suspects, claimed they knew their secret and developed a fabricated scenario in order to get the suspects to confess. (The account above is based on the videotape and also on legal documents.) Very specific things, the one that stood out to me was how Sebastian supposedly agreed to taking a hitman job for the Mr Big operation. Sebastian Burns's hair was found in the shower, mixed with the Rafay's blood. well the fact that the entire Mr Big operation never revealed any holdback information (info police withhold from the media to verify confessions) whatsoever means its entirely possible the kids were bullshitting. Olson is accused of having sex with client Sebastian Burns, later found guilty with friend Atif Rafay of killing Rafay's father, mother and sister in their Bellevue home. He goes on, in that same letter, to discuss the works of Dostoevsky, Primo Levi, and Louis Begley, who wrote a book about a Jewish boy in Poland during World War II. He reasons that hair from previous uses (Burns was staying at the house, in a room next to the shower) would have been washed down the drain when the killer showered. Russia school massacre, which premiered at the 2006 Tribeca Film Festival. Burns has exhausted all of his appeals and Atif Rafay is on his last one. The coverage, like public opinion in general, was not sympathetic to the accused. Its now an AMC theater. Rafay is not expected to take the witness stand in the trial, which. I thought that was interesting, so I looked at the comment thread to see what other people thought. Were meant to believe he was so petrified and yet he was the one to complain about how much they paid him when he moved the stolen car for them. So many inconsistencies in that unlawfully attained confession and the murder weapon being a bat had already been in the news by then. Hes upset that in Mr. Big he appears to bolster the contention that theres something inherently wrong with it; he says he tried, unsuccessfully, to have himself removed from the film. It wouldve been extremely easy for them to leave during the movie, commit the crime, then go to Seattle, go about their evening, and come home to stumble onto the crime scene. By Lydia Burns For Daily Mail . Other than that the outstanding points for me are the obviously weaved alibi, staged break in, bizzare behaviour after the fact and the fact that neither of them made any attempt to comfort or help Basma as she lay dying. Some may remember the triple homicide that shook Bellevues Somerset Hill in 1994. In this kind of operation, police get murder suspects to confess by posing as a criminal gang and introducing suspects to a fake crime boss, Mr. Big, who says he can help them but only if they can prove their bona fides, usually by coughing up information about the crime they had been charged with. He says it happens so often theres a name for it: criminal braggadocio. I find appalling the jurors' interview talking about their made up minds and how good looking the prosecutor was. Then, as the trial approached, Burns was caught in a jailhouse sexual encounter with his public defender, Theresa Olson, who famously described the incident as a hug gone bad. She and her co-counsel were removed from the case. Ms. Olson, 43, has been Mr. Burns' lawyer since 1999. A quick search online, however, revealed a plethora of spirituality sites devoted to the . Were all a little eccentric.. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Fox and Olson were working hard to defend Sebastian . They have turned in legal briefs; prosecutors are scheduled to do so by months end. He cautions that, no matter how much research you do on a case, you can never know the absolute truth of anything. Nonetheless, he says he simply cant fathom that the Rafay he knows would watch his family be bludgeoned to death. I know the Mr Big ruse is now deemed mainly inadmissible in Canadian courts but I do believe Burns and Rafay's confessions. I dont put any weight at all in what Miyoshi said, Loudenberg said. I am 32 years old now. The first post I come across was posted on this subreddit, right after it first aired. Klonsky is moved by Rafays letters. Sebastian Burns, left, and Atif Rafay, right, when they were arrested at age 19. But, whether Bellevue residents believe in alternative theories or if Atif Rafay or Burns gave false confessions, Loudenberg thinks people should look into the case for themselves. Instead, they put them up in a hotel with pagers, contact information and told them to get some sleep. Loudenberg said she didnt know True East would go on to lead her series, but she ended up spending so much time researching, traveling and submitting Freedom of Information Act requests, that it ended up being one of her biggest cases. So, I googled their names with "reddit" at the end, because topic discussions on reddit are always great reads. Burns has 11 goals and 32 assists, with two conversions on the powerplay. In real life more often than not, people panic, act strangely as a defense/coping mechanism. He claims they never intended to do anything violent for the crime boss, but they were willing to say whatever was necessary to get his help. Miyoshi was put between a rock and a hard place and ultimately ended up testifying against his friends and lying on the stand.. They capped their night with a meal at a diner in Seattle after going out to a Seattle club, they said. 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