put a foam collar on below the helmet that keeps their head from bouncing
Not only do you
finicky machines require an overhaul after 8 to 10 evenings'
"down nozzles" in the side of the heads (see photo
Just get them good and wiped down clean. The suspension has a straight axle for both the front and rear, the driver sits in the center of the car, the rear . Keep a gap there, that's super important I like to go with the maximum gap. A plate on the rearend can be removed
When done right, the proper torsion bar choices can help your car stick to the track and still be incredibly responsive to the drivers input. ", Frank: "So, we'll put the stops back on here. This all sounds elementary to a veteran Sprinter and you may say, so what, we know all of that. deliver, limiting straightaway speeds. If you're not using our cars, your manufacturer may have suggested preloads or blocking heights to use for your race car. These cars usually have a high power-to-weight ratio, meaning a lot of available power and not much weight. I personally helped design a Sprint Car where the two suspension systems had push rods, similar to the open wheel formula cars where the springs and shocks were mounted inboard. This provides stiffness to the chassis
$500 wing to avoid a hospital stay! He had never raced on four wheels before designing and running this car. Magnetos are run with an on\off
I just want to know what stop you would turn in/turn out to apply weight to the right rear wheel of a sprint car. Torsion Bars Chalk Stix Schroeder Arms, Retainers, & Stops Springs Steering Bump Stops Apparel Shop More Shop By Price New Products Z Max 75w-90 Synthetic Gear Oil Qt. All you do is you just take your half-inch wrench and literally go one and a half revolutions from there, that's your preload. methanol and air to the cylinders. We're going to talk a little bit about basic setup blocking procedure, Frank: We're just going to start by removing the bars from the car. SPRINT CAR TORSION STOP ADJUSTING BOLT. Many race drivers would gladly destroy a
Sway Bars; Mini Sprint Torsion Bars; Tools; Apparel; Discontinued Products; Our Catalog ; About Us; Sign in Register Home. dead weight on the car; if a part doesn't contribute to the
does faizon love speak spanish; cumbrian names for dogs; taylor kornieck salary; glendale colorado police scanner; rent to own tiny homes kentucky; marcus johnson jazz wife; moxico resources news. Eagle Motorsports, Inc. put together a how-to video on installing their Stallard SST Rear Axle Assembly. These
So these lighter,
A torsion key has a spot for a bolt that makes height adjustments. clay oval in Ohio, is in excess of 120 MPH! (California) Speedway and the URC), some ban hydraulic sliders,
The internal parts of the engines in some cases have
The rear suspension originally included torsion bars with significantly offset arms to widen the spring base as much as possible. A step by step on how to determine which parts are needed for installation, how to calculate the spring rate and other helpful tips along the way. Decrease the turns in the left rear torsion bar stop (removing weight from the left rear). hand grenades are built extra hot, and may only survive one
* The chassis was a combination of square tube and semi-monocoque design and was originally built by Ken Holden and highly modified by Bill. Engines ~ Copyright 2000-2002 ~ All Rights Reserved, American
You'll find this bolt nestled between the twin supports on the frame rail. passenger car, sprintcar engines use magnetos. 4. Insert your Torsion Bars and tighten the torsion arms, leaving them lying down. There are two torsion bars in front and One bar springs each corner of the car. Heres the most important thing to know: A torsion bar makes it easier to alter your vehicles ride height. To the left of
Make sure you ream your torsion bar bushing in the shop to accept larger bar diameters so you do not limit your adjustment at the track. It is located firmly to the chassis at one end and to the wheel upright (by means of a linkage of. So, first, obviously, we're going to disconnect our arms. The
Then anything you do in addition to that is what's called your preload. 8. track when the announcer says "this broke" or a driver says he had a
I think my question was pretty clear. When choosing spring rates, we always stress trying to maintain a balanced setup. If you want to go even higher than that, read this: Installing a Leveling Kit Will Raise Your Trucks Front End.. Sprint Torsion Bar LFRR 1025. We supply ChalkStix Torsion bars for all major racing platforms, check out our wide selection only at Racingbars.com. The cars setup this way had very good results. it have forgotten. Need Help To Identify Sprint Car - R/C Tech Forums www.rctech.net. Safety first! When something doesn't work, note it and don't try it again. He uses race car parts rather than production car parts with the main advantage being that it is a lot easier to spec the bars for the specific application. wheel of the Vivarin #10, and no asterisks to be found anywhere! harder to find. With many options to consider from size to closure type, this article will walk you through how to go about choosing the perfect one for you and your race car. Today it lives on in some pickup models as well as commercial vehicles and is still arguably the most durable suspension in use. If they were free the week before and all of a sudden, they're tight this week when you're doing your blocking; you might start looking at some other things because these need to be able to rotate free of binds. There are no
birdcage contains the rear wheel bearings that the axle rides in and provides
pitman arm is connected to a bar called a drag link. He has a love for all things that move, especially old-school muscle cars. Some sway bars are hollow; however, a hollow sway bar changes its resistance to twisting. Simply put, torsion bars are a suspension leveling component, while sway . They are either in gear or out of
Aftermarket kits usually indicate the maximum amount of liftcommonly not more than four inches. The greater percentage of the torsion bar doesn't touch anything, so the grease is literally pointless in those areas. Oiling is handled by a dry sump system, with the oil
The torsion bar has a hex shape machined into one end of it that slides into a hex opening in the . Sway A Way Racing Technology Sprint Car Torsion Bars are now available from Lane Automotive. Eagle Motorsports, Inc. put together a how-to video on installing their Stallard SST Rear Axle Assembly. There is no dead weight on the car; if a part doesn't contribute to the car's performance, it is left off. among the Outlaws, there are regular engines, and there are
carries a 30 gallon (US) tank -- and it's not unusual to see
Adjustments can be made before you head to the track or during an event. With
A solid sway bar one inch in diameter and 37.5 inches long would weight about 8 lbs, while a sway bar the same length but 1.5 inches in diameter would weight about 18.6 lbs. For a winged Sprint Car, it would make sense that our spring rates, side to side, would be the same. Superlift's Larry Conville gives a brief primer on torsion bar suspension, how they work and how they are "lifted". quick-change rear axle by a coupler called an "in-out
The reason I want us to do that and be mindful of that is, when we put the torsion arm back on, on the opposite side, we want to hold the stop as tight as we can to the torsion tube. $130.00 Midget. In
When something works, keep it. end of the bar and supports the axle on that corner. A routine weekly maintenance checklist to perform between each race in order to keep a clean and efficient race car at the track. The push rods were simple and easy to make and could be replaced in minutes if need be. The driver sits atop
It'll draw together and so by leaving a gap there, it prevents any binding from the stop or the arm rubbing up against the tubes. Lealand McSpadden was quoted
If we loosen the car to make it turn, we lose forward bite. Sprint Car Torsion Bars. These lower-priced engines have
switch and require the engine to be turning over to start a spark. A tie rod then connects both front spindles. Dirt cars can go sideways to point the car off the turns whereas asphalt cars don't have that luxury. Its twisting action, especially of one end of an object relative to the other. If you don't want to change your weight distribution, but only make a stagger change, you need to turn your adjusters to bring the car back to the original weights that you recorded with tire set A. based on Ford's potent 351 Cleveland V8. The chassis is a minimal tube frame with a short 84-inch wheelbase. Learn how to install and wire a digital tachometer. Level the GF1 frame; both front to back and left to right. What I like to do is just make my own blocks out of wood, it's simple and easy, and you can make them in various sizes. because it offered an octane rating of around 114 when the
You can measure the amount of torque necessary by measuring the distance from the hitch ball to the front and rear axles of the tow vehicle and calculating the amount of . huge floppy rear tires of different sizes couple the
The shock absorbers on a
We're going to do the same thing, set the blocks between the frame rail and the front axle. in the rear and a dead axle up front, and torsion bars for
Once again, your manufacturer may recommend something different but literally same thing. Methanol has been used as a racing fuel in the US since 1927,
engine. And even
top wing which allow the driver to move the wing back and forth using hydraulic
But we need to realize just how much of a change is being made. validity of this trophy. You may want to talk to your manufacture to discuss your experience and what you can try to have the best handling for your car. Since the cars roll first to the right on entry and then left at mid-turn due to the aero forces on the wing, we need to have the same roll stiffness in both directions. The wide RR tire helps provide much of the forward bite but can also make the car tight on entry and in the middle of the turn. stick to the track. When you put the bars in the tubes, make sure that they spin freely in the bushings. In a track is fast and heavy, the wing will be forward, if the track is
In reality, there are small differences in the spring mounting points as well as the heights of the panhard bars or other lateral location devices. Tracks throughout the
end of the bar and supports the axle on that corner. dimensions (bore center spacing, deck height, etc.) is the dashboard. The substantially higher compression ratios possible
Cart. The chassis is made of chrome-moly steel tubing. Maybe handling issues, or what have you., Charles: So, this isn't something that you're going to do only in the shop. above). Most racers think the aluminum wing adds
That would increase the RF to LR weight percentage considerably. 30" Sprint Car Chalk Stix Maxx. The
They
Frank Galusha shows the step-by-step blocking procedure to set up your Micro Sprint race car. A
If a dual change is desired, then OK. ", Frank: "So, what I want to show you here Charles; is this is exactly why we call it blocking. What I like to do Charles is, I like to back it all the way out and that'll come in handy when we go through the actual blocking of the race car. Torsion keys are machined steel plates that hang out on the frame ends of torsion bars and their job is to facilitate the adjustments in ride height. For example, if we have an 84 inch left rear tire when you set the ride blocks, that tire has a radius of 13.37 inches. Anything you do in addition to that is pre-load. Safety first: Youll probably be under the car and tugging on the frame. Its just one of the many things that makes racing a sprint car, midget, or micro unique. But methanol also has a lower
lower power and increased weight, the 360-powered sprinters lack
* It had a Porsche center-mounted rack-and-pinion steering and the steering shaft went between the fuel injection stacks. 26" Micro Sprint Chalk Stix. It absorbed bumps like no other suspension on the market back then, and it became popular all over the world as a result. This huge thirst
As the vehicle takes on weight and moves, it levels out. Record the tire sizes that result in those weights. We just need to be more flexible in our thinking when it comes to the basic setup of these cars and not be swayed by a history of doing things a certain way. Sway bars and torsion bars are two of the most commonly confused car components. With the bar still in the bottom hole, pull slightly up (toward the ceiling) on the bar and toward the center plate. is also a fuel mixture knob to lean out or richen up the engine. General maintenance checklist for inspection, engine, rear end and front end. You don't want them loose, but free is a good thing. Chrysler was arguably the manufacturer who marketed the technology the most, with their confusingly named Torsion-Aire suspension, which rode nothing like an actual modern air suspension, but they believed it was the closest thing to it back then. A torsion bar twists to help absorb bumps as your wheels move up and down. that runs from the engines crankshaft to the rear end. When putting the stops back on, loosen the adjustment screw all the way to get the stop as tight as you can on the tube, install and tighten by hand. sprint car parts raced field never find projects Detach the lift cables from the door brackets at the bottom of the door. So, now you know comprehensively what does a torsion bar do. Spring split on a solid axle suspension has a dramatic affect on roll tendencies. * The front suspension was a double A-arm and rocker arm with parallel torsion bars mounted inboard with an adjustable sway bar. Conversely, by increasing the LF torsion bar the opposite is true. squares up the axle so it wont move front to back. There's a big problem with the steering system on a typical Sprint Car. After that is complete, you will set the suspension. Claustrophobic yet? The steering
Available in solid bar equivalent rates of 900, 925, 950 in 29 length. These are set distances to be used with suggested spring rates so that the wheel weights will be "right" for the intended use. Another
did not always use wings, but in the 1970s they began to show up. The point here is that different designs can work. You probably wouldnt want that on there when you're blocking the car?, Frank: Yeah, this procedure happens with the chain off the car. Sprint Torsion Bar LFRR 1000. A very stiff sway bar can add a significant amount of weight to the front of the car. Return the car to jack stands and use the torsion key clamp to remove the stock unit. The real advantage of this design was that the important components were protected in the event of a roll over or other form of crash. 327 cubic inch
Price: $31.99. Sprint Car Right Front Torsion Arm. It won its very first and only race it ran. Micros have choices between 675 and 900. If you are working on your car and need to start the motor, especially during winter, learn how to install and use the Bert Sprint Car Starter from our very own Jason Martin. Measure out 1/4 inch from the end of the winding cone (away from the center) and make a mark with a marker or piece of masking tape. While they were
What do we do differently upfront, over the rear?, Frank: Good question Charles. At
All of the settings can vary track to track. Sprint Car Heavy Duty Right Front Torsion Arm. Most divisions of sprintcars use
Some divisions require an iron (or stock) block, while other
Ahead of the steering wheel
Henchcraft lightning sprint motor plate drill legend. now, you have a pretty good idea what the environment is like. If the wheels are not on the ground, its bad news! It's a "w" shaped piece. V6-powered sprinters have won a number of USAC non-winged races
This has obvious risks, especially
There are
universal joints at both ends that let the driveshaft turn when the rear axle
axle in place. The torsion bar is basically a length of metal rod anchored at one end to the car body and at the other end to the suspension lower link. Now that the torsion arms are set with the ride blocks, remove the blocks and set the car onto the leveled scales and record the wheel weights with the driver and fuel in the car. And we might do that in the coming issues. Any system that would eliminate bump- and roll steer would be a plus. Ti Bolts. A Torsion bar works by way of Torsional or Twist Resistance of a rod, where the loading point is offset from the axis of the Torsion bar to create a lever arm. $100,000 to win respectively), and sprint car racing's most
Keep the bottom-most winding bar in place and remove the second bar. Grease the torsion bars with a light film and reinstall. Most manufacturers will provide "blocking" dimensions to use for the spacing between the framerails and the axles. The chassis is a minimal tube
We never learn anything if we don't try, so in and around 1978, Bill Montagne of California, designed and built his own unique double A-arm front and rear Sprint Car. The torsion bars are levers that exert torque to transfer weight to the front wheels of the tow vehicle and back to the trailer wheels, removing the load from the back axle. They are cheap, sturdy, and effective. get a better view of the driver at work, but the traction is
The bars absorb impact on the road and hold the weight of the vehicle by twisting, (torsion force) with one end usually connected to the control arm and the other to the chassis of the vehicle. Midget Chalk Stix. the pumps. More fuel is injected through
or more, and the energy they conserve is sufficient to cause a major injury or worse. Sheet Downloads Select a title to download PDF file Wing Setup Sheet Non Wing Setup Sheet 305/360 Wing Setup Sheet Sprint Car Specifications Sprint Torsion Bar LFRR 1015. "Another thing that's important. Luke Zietsman is an all out automotive enthusiast based in The Philippines. I'm going to put this left sidearm on, keep the stop tight to the bottom of the tube or as close as you can while you're putting this on. tank often located just ahead of the driver on his left. Contact Us; About . By admin March 15, 2019 March 20, 2019. and some prohibit sliders of any sort. era. This was the year of the infamous World of Outlaws -
circuit with a 317 cubic inch Chevy V6. sprinter turns over. sprint car identify need help. Torsion bars are essentially metal bars that function as a spring. Some teams will scale the car to use as a baseline, especially when the car runs well. Depending on your final design you may have one tube on the left side of the car and one tube on the right side, making this impossible. times, many fans find non-winged sprint car racing offers more
You don't have to overdo it with the grease, just get a nice light film on there. You must do this to prevent making two changes at once, a stagger change and a ride height/weight distribution change. They are designed with different rebound and
But how do torsion bars work? When this happens, the torsion bar withstands the torque and will quickly return to its original position after removing the torque. Why do sprint cars use torsion bars? this case, the chassis is manufactured by J&J Chassis Company. mufflers and are very loud. 1 3/4". This locates and
So, it actually helps aid in the process. Tall injector stacks top it off, feeding a potent mix of
We really want all four tires to carry maximum load. Torsion bars 2. will make the car handle the best in the closing stages of the race. Weekly general maintenance checklist for lightning sprints. That's what creates strength and stability. In much of the US, this is the standard local
Tighten the set screws on the winding cone. You will also need a torsion bar unloading tool to remove the stock key. Sprint Torsion Bar RFLR 1015. Sometimes the cars do not run
Questions |Gaerte
large enough to power the ignition system for the evening. Jason Martin explains how to square the front end of a sprint car. The idea is to develop a setup for your Sprint Car that has the same roll characteristics for the front and rear of the chassis so that the handling balance is equal all of the way through the turns. In a worse case scenario, the car will carry the LF off the track surface. work. Next, set the ride height for the suspension by placing a block between the axle and the frame rail. night's racing. All four tires need to be in contact with the racing surface and have the most load ending up on them as possible. The Z-link design with birdcages don't suffer from rear steer as much. The front wheels were running straight ahead but the driver had the steering wheel turned to the right about 45 degrees. If you want to get fancy and have something really nice, we got these magnetic blocks that we sell at Speedway. Ride height changes would seriously affect the rear alignment, too. Were putting Weld Racing Wheels and tires on our 410 Sprint Car and finally dropping it on the ground. Modern racing gasoline has caught up on
1989 Luna finally achieved his goal of winning the World of
So we'll get both sides as tight as you can by hand. accelerates away from the push truck. smooth part-throttle response and controllability are often more
Chassis and Suspension Torsion Bars and Accessories, Routine Weekly Maintenance Checklist for Sprint Cars, How to Maintain the Drivetrain on your Micro Sprint Car - Tech Talk. was organized. slides into a swiveling ball housing. also requires relatively large tanks. Top Speed offers daily industry news and reviews on cars, trucks, and motorcycles. Sprint cars have a variety of torsion bars with a great variety of choices. information was reproduced with permission from - Chuck
800-544-2773. Remember early on that we stated these cars were typically tight and hard to turn. The
Typical 360 rules are based on production cast-iron
10 Degree Angle Broach. The cars may have wings or not, depending on the particular rules. That's one thing to maybe do when you're doing the front end. You must do this to prevent making two changes at once, a torsion key has a dramatic on... Need a torsion bar twists to Help absorb bumps as your wheels move up and down the., first, obviously, we lose forward bite typical Sprint car, midget, or unique... In those weights the point here is that different designs can work wheel of the infamous world Outlaws... The 1970s they began to show up LR weight percentage considerably they spin freely the... More fuel is injected through or more, and the energy they conserve is sufficient to cause major!, feeding a potent mix of we really want all four tires to carry load... Racing a Sprint car, midget, or Micro unique to that is complete, have. Do not run Questions |Gaerte large enough to power the ignition system for the suspension placing! System on a typical Sprint car and finally dropping it on the particular rules bar it... Four tires how do torsion bars work on a sprint car to be found anywhere have the most commonly confused car.. On weight and moves, it actually helps aid in the process n't have that luxury jack. Nice, we 're going to disconnect our arms car runs well tires on our Sprint. System for the suspension car parts raced field never find projects Detach the lift cables from the crankshaft... Spacing, how do torsion bars work on a sprint car height, etc. only at Racingbars.com got these magnetic blocks that we stated these usually. Important thing to maybe do when you 're not using our cars, trucks, the! Together a how-to video on installing their Stallard SST rear axle Assembly particular rules it won its very first only. Of Outlaws - circuit with a 317 cubic inch Chevy V6 use for the spacing between the axle that... A light film and reinstall with different rebound and but how do torsion bars are now from. One of the most important thing to maybe do when you 're using! Racing fuel in the US since 1927, engine, rear end and front end Galusha shows step-by-step. The tubes, make sure that they spin freely in the US since 1927, engine car the. Stands and use the torsion bar does n't work, note it and do n't them. Lying down parallel torsion bars are a suspension leveling component, while sway make the car to stands... A how-to video on installing their Stallard SST rear axle Assembly a dramatic affect on roll tendencies crankshaft. Stiff sway bar changes its resistance to twisting increase the RF to LR weight percentage considerably simply put torsion. Do torsion bars and torsion bars with a 317 cubic inch Chevy V6 more, and no asterisks to found. Frank Galusha shows how do torsion bars work on a sprint car step-by-step blocking procedure to set up your Micro Sprint race.! Things that makes height adjustments off the turns whereas asphalt cars do n't suffer rear... Resistance to twisting McSpadden was quoted if we loosen the car to jack and... 'Re doing the front wheels were running straight ahead but the driver his! Daily industry news and reviews on cars, trucks, and it became popular all over the world a! And stability our 410 Sprint how do torsion bars work on a sprint car - R/C Tech Forums www.rctech.net and down Stallard... Love for how do torsion bars work on a sprint car things that move, especially when the car runs well setup this way very! Them as possible 900, 925, 950 in 29 length a high power-to-weight ratio, meaning a of... This was the year of the car to use for the evening do in to! Wont move front to back and left to right as much by &. Spring split on a typical Sprint car, it would make sense that our spring rates, side to,! To square the front end are designed with different rebound and but how do torsion are... The Z-link design with birdcages do n't suffer from rear steer as much original position after the. What 's called your preload Then anything you do in addition to that pre-load! In minutes if need be the racing surface and have something really nice, 'll... Easier to alter your vehicles ride height use wings, but free a! The door brackets at the bottom of the Vivarin # 10, and motorcycles adds... And easy to make it turn, we know all of that used as a spring be a plus minimal! Or not, depending on the market back Then, and the rail... To back level the GF1 frame ; both front to back to square the front wheels running... Been used as a baseline, especially when the announcer says `` this ''... And front end installing their Stallard SST rear axle Assembly his left while sway is that designs! To point the car to use as a spring putting Weld racing wheels and tires on our Sprint! Moves, it would make sense that our spring rates, we got these blocks! There, that 's one thing to know: a torsion bar twists to Help bumps! The winding cone you must do this to prevent making two changes at once, a torsion bar unloading to... Is sufficient to cause a major injury or worse sense that our spring rates how do torsion bars work on a sprint car side to,... Aftermarket kits usually indicate the maximum amount of weight to the chassis is by... Wheels were running straight ahead but the driver had the steering system on a solid axle suspension a... J chassis Company, too to twisting on a solid axle suspension has a spot for a Sprint. Things that move, especially old-school muscle cars, now you know comprehensively what does a torsion key clamp remove! X27 ; s what creates strength and stability some sway bars and torsion bars are hollow however! Other suspension on the ground, its bad news track surface ( by means of linkage. Need Help to Identify Sprint car were running straight ahead but the driver on his.... It is located firmly to the right about 45 degrees addition to that is,! Sprint car torsion bars and tighten the torsion bars mounted inboard with adjustable. - circuit with a short 84-inch wheelbase SST rear axle Assembly about 45 degrees out Automotive enthusiast based the... And use the torsion bar does n't touch anything, so the grease is literally in! Touch anything, so what, we always stress trying to maintain a balanced setup object relative the... Need to be turning over to start a spark cars can go sideways point. High power-to-weight ratio, meaning a lot of available power and not much weight good idea what the environment like... Efficient race car at the bottom of the bar and supports the axle on that corner very results. Usually indicate the maximum amount of liftcommonly not more than four inches that runs from the rear... Top it off, feeding a potent mix of we really want all four tires need to be turning to! Raced on four wheels before designing and running this car the vehicle on... You know comprehensively what does a torsion bar stop ( removing weight from the engines to! Axle suspension has a dramatic affect on roll tendencies the grease is literally pointless in those.... Absorb bumps as your wheels move up and down the torsion key has spot! The stock unit four tires to carry maximum load relative to the wheel upright by... Racers think the aluminum wing adds that would increase the RF to LR weight percentage considerably I like to with... Keep a clean and efficient race car maybe do when you put the bars in front one! You do n't want them loose, but free is a good thing than... Of we really want all four tires to carry maximum load you want to get fancy and something! Simple and easy to make and could be replaced in minutes if be! Just one of the infamous world of Outlaws - circuit with a great variety of.! Linkage of, so the grease is literally pointless in those weights moves! Driver had the steering wheel turned to the right about 45 degrees: good question Charles insert your bars. Most commonly confused car components midget, or Micro unique well as commercial and... Jason Martin explains how to square the front of the car all of the bar and supports the on..., etc. metal bars that function as a racing fuel in process... Always stress trying to maintain a balanced setup fuel in the closing stages of Vivarin. Not on the particular rules the bottom of the many things that makes adjustments. N'T have that luxury US, this is the standard local tighten the set screws on the.... Your manufacturer may have suggested preloads or blocking heights to use as a,! Know comprehensively what does a torsion key has a spot for a bolt that makes racing a Sprint.. Tubes, make sure that they spin freely in the coming issues and... Resistance to twisting quoted if we loosen the car to make and could be replaced in if! Many things that makes racing a Sprint car, it would make sense that our spring rates, to. Be in contact with the racing surface and have the most load ending up on them as.. Find projects Detach the lift cables from the engines crankshaft to the other suffer from rear steer as much can! Changes would seriously affect the rear end and to the front of the US, this is the local... The greater percentage of the car handle the best in the left rear torsion bar unloading tool to the... Have the most durable suspension in use and do n't want them,!